Why are some people allowed to suck?
Posted Mon Dec 03, 2007 02:57 PM
Most of us are taught right from wrong, appropriate and decent behavior from innapropriate and indecent. Yet we all know someone who is generally inappropriate and inconsiderate and all of that, and isn't it true that if you deal with them at all you are left viewing the situation from the perspective of "well you just have to let it go because they won't learn".
Well, how come that particular person is allowed to get away with not learning how to behave while the rest of us did have to learn? What makes them so special?
Life is unfair, it's just how things are, etc. I don't see a real answer to this. I'd like to discuss what the answer might be though.
Do you think this is some manifestation of the evils of the world? Does their behavior keep us in line (seeing examples of the bad things help us to avoid them and know better for our own behavior)? etc.
What do you think?
Posted Mon Dec 03, 2007 03:03 PM
But the real reason is parenting, parents since the 90s have stopped corporal punishment and now you see a man with his boy in his prius saying "Now Tony, you remember our agreement don't you? Get out of the car and you can have ice cream later"
Posted Mon Dec 03, 2007 03:21 PM
Any suggestions on why this acceptable (not why we must accept it, rather what positive purpose does it serve - even a balance to something is positive in a way)? Also, any suggestions on how to change their behavior and make them learn as adults?
The only behavior modification system we have as a country for adults is prison and the legal system in general. There are so many people who don't do necessarily illegal things but still have poor behavior though.
What about a moral police? Who thinks that's the right line of thinking and how can we implement such a thing (hypothetically and for entertainment of course)? I feel like Turtle would have some good implementation ideas here. lol
Posted Mon Dec 03, 2007 03:53 PM
Posted Mon Dec 03, 2007 04:45 PM
Posted Mon Dec 03, 2007 07:01 PM
The following is a posting of mine and the discussion that followed from another board that sums up my feelings on the issue of kids and parents:
I hate people who let their kids do whatever they please and then have the audacity to get pissed off at someone else who puts them in there place. If you don't want to take care of them, don't have them or at least have the decency to keep them at home so others don't have to watch them for you.
I also hate dipshits that bring their infants to the movies. Either get a babysitter, go to the drive-in or stay at home w/your kid.
I absolutely hate people that leave their children in the car on a ninety degree day and forget about them and then blame it on being too busy. Well, I notice you weren't too busy to concieve the child though were you? You found time to get your rocks off. Please, how can you do that to your precious child?
bad rep for you asshole. you would actually let someone else touch your child? if you let your kid do whatever he or she wanted to do, and let some stranger put your child "in their place"? you are unbelievable. nobody touches your child. NOBODY!!!!!
Don't ya love when people see what they want-not what was really written? My reply:
Umm, I didn't say anything about letting anyone touch MY kid for one thing. What I'm talking about is people that don't watch there kids getting pissed when someone else puts them in there place-not physically, verbally.
Like the time I was at an "open buffet" style restaurant and this kid goes up to the ice cream machine and put his mouth right on the spigot and started sucking down soft serve ice cream from it and the gentleman next in line told the kid to knock it off because it was rude and unsanitary so the kid runs to his dad and the kid's dad flies off the handle because his kid got scolded for it.
For your information no one would ever have to "put a hand" on my kid because I would be watching them and if my kid did do something like that I'd not only take care of the problem I'd apoligize to anyone around.
So bad rep for you for not reading what I actually posted and making an assanine assumption.
Then I followed up with:
And just for the record had my father ever had to be informed about my acting like a jack ass the way kids do nowadays by someone else I wouldn't have to worry about someone else laying a hand on me, I'd have been in that much more trouble by him and would have made sure never to do anything like that again.
I have to say your post makes me wonder if you're one of those half assed parents that feels your kid/s should be able to do anything they want as long as it isn't bothering you.
Posted Mon Dec 03, 2007 07:18 PM
I just want to hypothesize ways to teach these people to stop being such inconsiderate jerks all the time. Just because their parents didn't teach them to behave doesn't mean society shouldn't be able to. That sounds mean... I'm not really that mean. I'm simply frustrated. This is my way of trying to work it out in my head I suppose.
Are they just here to teach patience to the rest of us? If that's so, do they not need to learn to be patient?
Dibbo - you make an excellent argument about watching after your own children etc. I agree with you there. It's easy enough to chastize the kid that's not yours when the parent won't. What do you do to the grown ups that need to be chastized though? Especially when they simply don't absorb anything you say or do to indicate they're being inappropriate?
Also, I'm not a parent. When I am in charge of children though they don't get away with much and if they do try to do something they shouldn't not only will they be chastized to knock it off but they will have to explain why exactly they thought it was okay and why they now know that it's not. I'm very much in control of children in my charge. Please don't misunderstand that. I don't take any shit from them, as it were. I'm calm, and friendly, and playful, and well liked, but I am very much in control of them.
Posted Tue Dec 04, 2007 03:13 AM
It seems like the company i work for, the more you fuck up, mess them around, take the piss you get looked after nobody gets fired unless they do something that causes the company to look bad (like a health and safety incident). They gave this one dude as punishment a week of suspension with full pay... hell I think every person I know wouldnt mind a piece of that, so how is that punishment??
then look at our legal system over here its diabolical, drivers are persecuted and criminals are set free, time after time we see a known heroin addict walking the streets they keep threatening to lock him up but they never do. Now in the papers you hear about smack heads who are being given heroin because to deny it to them is against their human rights, yet they get locked up for robbing some old man to pay for their addiction. Criminals are being set free becaue of over crowding.. what hell is that all about?
A society that has no effective means of punishment is in my opinion doomed from the off. I think its time we brought backthe death penalty and started offing a few of the scum that walk this earth. The more public it is the more of a deterant it will be.
lets start with the lawyers.
I honestly believe television is to blame, the cheap baby sitter. That and maybe the lack of a family meal time at a propper table.
Posted Tue Dec 04, 2007 07:11 AM
I agree with you about getting paid time off as a punishment. The messages our system sends are all wrong. People have gotten so ... adament about having the right to do everything that they've forgotten it allows everyone else to do anything they want as well, and not everyone can handle that responisbility but someone always has to pay for it. Boundaries have to be placed somewhere eventually. At least, if you want a chance at a fair and decent ending they have to be.
There are just two or three people (which feels like so very many) in my life right now who, on a daily basis, are just so rude and abrasive and inconsiderate and thoughtless and selfish. Those aren't things we can legally do anything about. I just wonder if there is any way to put people like that back in line (whether they were ever decent or not).
I know how they got that way. It doesn't help fix them now. It only gives another excuse to allow them to continue to behave so poorly. I feel like allowing them such excuses only encourages their behavior and thus the problem as a whole. As a society we have learned that "some people will just never learn to be nice so you have to just let them do whatever they want (within the law) and accept it". I hate that. Why is that okay?
My sister proposed something like citizens arrest. Only, instead of arresting the person, we're allowed to punish them suiting their behavior. I know punishment works. I understand all of the behavior modification principles. I will use them when appropriate. I am still a pacifist though. I would still like to find a way to deal with these people short of speculating on how we could legally give them a beating everytime they deserve one.
It's just the same stone wall ending every time "the only way is to just try to reason with them and they'll see their behavior is wrong; yet, the problem is that they will not listen under any circumstances, they will simply never get it". Thus, all of the people who make an effort to behave reasonably in public every day are left frustrated at those who are societally allowed to not give a shit. I suppose the only feasible solution is for us all to start acting like assholes. We'll just see who can be the bigger jerk. jk
Posted Tue Dec 04, 2007 08:52 AM
You beat them.
Posted Tue Dec 04, 2007 08:59 AM
Posted Tue Dec 04, 2007 09:51 AM
Posted Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:12 AM
And i fear that is where the biggest of these problems lie.
Posted Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:56 AM
Posted Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:07 AM
But I firmly believe that the top of any infastracture is the governemt principally the leading party. The river of corruption flows deep at those levels of parliament.
how can you expect decent and just children, when the very society they are raised in promotes cheating and devilment? backhanders, bribery and corruption at every corner.
If you are honest you get nowhere, if you lie cheat, cut corners and break / bend rules then the sky is the limit.
nice guys come last doesnt just apply to love you know.
Posted Wed Dec 05, 2007 02:12 PM
Posted Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:26 PM
the trouble is though, somehwere between the innocence of youth and the rush and bustle of adulthood ones values suffer a beating. Maybe its puberty?
Posted Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:40 PM