Lyrical & Bob The saga continues...
Posted Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:19 PM
Bet none of you saw this coming Haha.
So, if you're reading this and have no idea who Bob is or what this in reference to, you're gonna have to read back some of my earlier threads to get the full story. For those who have been following and helping me...
Over the last few weeks/month Bob and I have been back in contact. It was mainly professional, as i'm throwing a benefit concert and he is playing. This was supposed to be like completely over. He told me to move on. And i did, with his friend, in case anybody missed this. He doesn't really know this, though it's no secret and if he paid attention he would know. In my head I was completely 100% "done" with him. Yeah I still had feelings, but... it was whatever. We talked a little bit online, he messaged me on facebook a few times and on yahoo IM, and if things went "there" - I quickly made it clear I was no longer receptive. At one point he brought it up and said something along the lines of "I'm so depressed, things aren't going good. I'm in Toledo for work and i'm lonely, i wish you were here. I miss you." And i said "I don't know what to say to that, I closed that chapter." And he said "Don't remind me."
Fast forward to the Wednesday before last. We started talking online. Again, he was in a different town for work. Outside of Pittsburgh. We had a very lengthy conversation. It eventually went "there". Of course. He brought up the idea of me coming to the hotel. It was one of those nice "suites". I told him that probably wouldn't be a good idea. Needless to say he wore me down. I told him i was absolutely crazy for even considering the idea. We've never had sex, and at this point, it was pretty clear if i went there we were going to sleep together. This is going to look really bad on me, but due to starting to hook up with his friend, I found out that he was still very much with the girl that i mentioned in another thread about when i found out he lived with her. To my defense, Bob did move very recently. When he told me about the girl he told me they were not together but stuck living together. His friend told me otherwise. To justify going to spend the night with him, I told myself he moved, they may finally be over. I was probably wrong, but I could have been right. I still do not know.
Now that I tried to make myself possibly look like I somewhat knew what i was doing...
I went there with the mindset... that I needed to do this. I had wanted him for so long. I just wanted to "get it out of my system" and even told him so. My plan was to take this night, knowing it would hurt in the end, and tuck it where it belongs and move on. So I went.
Of course, long story short, we did a lot of fucking and not much talking at first. It was amazing, something about him drives me completely wild. That's neither here nor there. I was really trying to keep everything in perspective. Giving myself to him after all this time was a big step for me, but I was making it in the right frame of mind. He made it really hard though. When he first came at me, and "it" was about to finally happen, he laid me down. In my mind i registered "No, I do not want to do the missionary position!!!" Like i panicked. It just seems too intimate. I tried to get up so i could ride him or something, but he pushed me down. Ugh. It was like 45 minutes of that. And he wouldn't let me look away from him, he made me stare in his eyes. It was like he was making love to me. The jerk!!! Finally though, we did get down and dirty and do it the way i wanted.
After the first very long/exhausting session, we got to talking some. At first just pointless random things (even the weather, but that's because it was a blizzard lol).
What i have a problem with, is this part. He brought up everything. Which i guess isn't a terrible thing, but i didn't want to go there. I just wanted to screw so i didn't have to wonder my whole life. He got really nervous. His leg was bouncing up and down like crazy and he was having a hard time getting out what he wanted to say. He doesn't open up and really talk about his feelings. But in a nutshell...
He told me that he doesn't want to hurt me. That he has VERY few people in his life that he cares about and I am one of them. I tried to stop him from saying more at this point, because like I said, it really didn't matter to me at that point. I shook my head and told him to stop and he said "NO, hear me out. I have not treated you the best." I shook my head again - like why do we have to go here? "No, it's true. I haven't. And i'm really sorry." So i said "Okay..." And he went on... To tell me that nobody in his life believes in him. That I really truly support him and believe in his dreams. To which i agreed and told him i do and always will. He said that he has never shown his appreciation to me and he finds it really hard to express himself sometimes. At this point his leg bouncing speed increased ten fold and he started to get tears in his eyes. He got really choked up and said "I DO care about you, Amber. I really do. I'm sorry that i don't always show it. I do care." At this point i told him not to worry about hurting me, that I understand that he has issues in his life that he needs to sort (IE: The girl). That since the last time we had been together, I have changed. And i have. I am more open to sexual things with people.
So, needless to say now i am torn. I deliberately have kept my distance from him since that night. He hasn't tried to reach out to me. But he does little things that REALLY annoy me/make everything he says to me null and void. And then turns around and does things that contradict even that.
I did reach out to him, because he has been a little depressed about the music. So i suggested he do a webconcert on his livestream channel since he doesn't have shows. I did this in a text message. He replied back instantly "Not a bad idea, maybe tomorrow?" And i replied back to LET ME KNOW when he does it so i don't miss it. Friday night i went to my grandfathers, and i sent him a friendly text saying "You havent' done the webconcert yet, don't forget to let me know!" And what do you know? When i got home - he was doing it. I missed the first hour of it. How hard is it to say "I'm doing it tonight" !? UGH!
But then go back a day, my birthday was on Thursday. He called me to wish me a happy birthday, and it was really cute because he had said he was going to sing to me but he realized he didn't know how to play the bday song. He told me on Facebook he was going to sing Happy Birthday to me but i didn't take him seriously at all. Most of our communication is done in text whether it be IM or texting. We've spent a lot of time on the phone, but it's usually long conversations and not very often. So i was really surprised to hear from him. During this conversation he again brought up being upset, having a bad day, people letting him down. But when I try to get details he just eludes.
I am so confused.
And on a side note: I had to tell his friend that I went and slept with him, obviously. He really didn't care, and he still keeps in touch with me every day though i haven't seen him and I've told him, now that i've slept with Bob, things are way different. I have been very open and honest with him about everything. We're all gonna be together in September at my benefit concert. This whole situation is getting really sticky.
Does anybody know how to deal with somebody who finds it THAT hard to open up about things? I really care about him, I will go so far as to say that i love him now. Why, i really couldn't tell you. It's something deep inside of me that i can't control. Some days i feel like he doesn't care at all and i'm just another girl. On other days i feel like he must feel the same way that i do for this to go on for what... nearly two years now?
So do i just take to heart what he tried so hard to tell me? Do i believe that he cares? I care about him enough that i can continue to support him in his dreams, but I can't hold myself back for him. I can't wait forever. I can't settle for a once in a great while mindblowing hook up. I know i have to talk to him, but it's so HARD. I don't want to pry and dig things out of him. I mean, this was a huge step, because he's never opened up like that before. Ever. The most i've gotten from him was "I do think about you." or "I don't want to hurt you." Never an "I care about you."
Okay, have at it telling me how stupid i am Haha. I really do need advice on how to approach this now. Obviously my "Tuck it away where it belongs" plan is not going to work unless i tell him flat out that i cannot see him in that way again. I don't know if that's what i want. I don't know!!!
Posted Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:36 PM
Posted Sun Feb 07, 2010 04:50 PM
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:01 AM
I wrote Bob a very long, heartfelt email. A) Because i can't think straight when i talk to him. Because i have no cell signal at home and it's really hard to talk on the phone and C) I wanted to make sure i touched on every point i wanted to.
He calls me. And says he didn't read but one paragraph of it. Umm okay, well thanks. He tried to explain that the medication he's on makes it impossible for him to concentrate/comprehend what he's reading. Okay, fine. So i moved to perch myself on the arm of the couch and cuddle against the freezing cold window, which is the only place i seemed to be able to get a decent reception on my phone (perhaps because of the blizzard)? And he acts all cool and nonchalant "So what's on your mind, Amber?" Sigh. I tried to explain that the reason i wrote the email was there was SO much and I didn't know where to began. I knew as soon as i told him about Tom, that would be the focus of the entire conversation. And i told one of my friends that when i said i had to talk to Bob about everything. I was right.
I started out just by telling him that this entire time i've tried to get him to open up to me. That i find it hard to understand him and what he wants from me. He proceeded to once again tell me how much he cares about me. And this time he threw in "trust". He told I am one of the only people in his life that he trusts. That "Due to things that have happened to him" he doesn't trust many people. He told me he counts me as one of his best friends and always will. "And not just a friend, but a real true friend. One of the few." Sigh. He said "Tell me what you want to know, i'll tell you anything". Here's where I should have just said... do you have a girlfriend? But i didn't, I had to explain everything first. So i tried to skirt around it telling him that prior to hooking up with him again there was a similar relationship i was starting, and now i'm at a crossroads as to what to do. I tried to explain that i don't WANT anybody but him, but all he wanted to do was tell me not to let him hold me back from anything. But then again, he also told me to take a few weeks "away" form him, and even said "I know we don't spend time together, but... try to forget about me for awhile. See what you want." Okay? Um. Right. At one point he even said "I shouldn't even factor into this". Ouch!!! Okay then, forget trying to tell him how i really feel then. So i told him all about his friend. And as expected, that was the end of the rest of the conversation. All he was worried about was whether or not i told his friend about us. I mean he was VERY adamant. Before i could really even think about what i was saying, in that split second, i blurted "No". He wanted to know what all happened prior to us hooking up again. I told him i really did not want to discuss details with him but he had to know for whatever reason. And he told me if he had known that, he wouldn't have slept with me. Ouch. That baffled me a little, and for a split second i wondered if he was angry with me. But then he proceeded to tell me it wasn't me. That Tom(his friend) is a very good guy, and if he really likes me, he couldn't/wouldn't get in the way of that. I just wanted to scream at him. HELLO!!! It was me and you first, it was me and you for the last two years. How in the world can you say that? So in between really making me feel worthless, he made me promise 900 times not to tell Tom about us. Again, i wanted to say "Why, so the girl doesn't find out?" But i couldn't bring myself to do it. Why else would he be SO worried about that?
Tom DOES know. And Tom doesn't care. I should have been honest and up front about that, but he was just sooo worried about it that i couldn't. I know how Tom feels about it, and he's very nonchalant about the whole entire thing. No harm no foul right? :-\ I really wanted to bring up the girl, but at this point, as i expected, the whole conversation was centered in the wrong place. It was centered around what I had done. I admitted i was wrong for not telling him prior to hooking up with him again. I told him that is why i was there, to do the right thing, maybe in the wrong order, but the right thing nonetheless. I was hoping he'd open up at this point, but he wouldn't.
So the conversation was ended with the fact that him and Tom will always be friends, and me and him will always be friends regardless of what happens. Not much else was figured out. he told me "I don't think anything else can happen between us now." - but other than that, he was so worried about Tom knowing that he couldn't wrap his mind around anything else.
I just feel really terrible right now. I never expected him to react that way. Actually, I did. But i hoped he wouldn't. It's pretty obvious to me, he was worried about HER and what his friend thinks of him (Tom told me he IS with that girl). He didn't care about me at all. I know they are not "together" - he's always alone. But i think they are trying to work it out for the millionth time. I wouldn't know for sure, because i can never bring myself to ask. I told him before i hung up the phone that regardless of what he said about it, I probably wasn't going to pursue anything with Tom. That since i'd been with him that had changed for me. That's where i left it. I told him there isn't anything there with Tom like there is with him, and had i KNOWN this wasn't over between us, i never would have done anything with Tom. So i guess i said what i had to say, but as i suspected, the whole POINT of the talk i wanted to have was missed. I really hope he hung up the phone and at least tried to read my email. There was so much more i wanted to say that i couldn't get to.
I think i'm going to call him today. I know he probably will not answer. But i think i'm going to leave him a message saying that i'm sorry, and that i will try my best to remain friends with him if that's what he wants. During our conversation i pretty much said i could not be his friend because i want to jump his bones all the damn time. Do you think i should call him again? Or just leave it where it is and give it time?
I am so upset. I don't know why. He has NOT been the best to me. But i'm becoming more and more convinced that the reason is because he just simply cannot open up. And i feel terrible about everything, though i shouldn't.
And as an aside: I talked to Tom about this soon after it happened. I wanted to give him the heads up that Bob freaked out and was worrying. As soon as he told him he says "Oh.. is that why he tried calling me a few minutes ago?" Ugh. He didn't answer, so at this point i have no idea what Bob was doing calling Tom. Damage control? I told him that i fibbed and said he didn't know. Always the sensible one, he said "It doesn't matter and i hope he's not stressing out over it. You should have just told him you told me and i didn't care." Okay Tom, easier said than done, thanks. Once again, he shrugged it off. Even going on to say that Bob reacts to things sometimes in ways that are hard to understand, but he'll get over it and it'll blow over. I apologized to him because this is EXACTLY what i didn't want to happen. I don't ever want to come between two people like this.
Now what? I want Bob. No idea why, but i do. One part of me is wanting to cry, because it's probably over for good. (And that parts winning more than the other) The other part is telling me this isn't over yet. Some parts of me want it to be, and others don't.
This is just insane.
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010 05:30 PM
The first thing that came to mind as I read through it was was that it's classic male-vs.-female communication problems. Men are generally more direct, and don't understand when women aren't. It's better to be straightforward with them.
I think it would be good for you to get out what you need to get out. BUT, don't do it when you're emotional, and wait for things to get clarified in your mind. If you need to talk, talk to us or to your friends. When you're calm and collected, go to him with a direct explanation and suggested solution. From there, you can't do anything else. He either agrees to what you're saying, or he doesn't and it's over.
The tongue-tied and saying things you don't mean sometimes happens to me, too - especially when I'm frustrated with a man! It helps me to either put things in writing, so I can think it out and edit, or rehearse my conversation. I know that sounds stupid, but it works for me! Since emails don't seem to work, I'd try the rehearsing thing.
I'm in the opposite situation right now. "My guy" (i.e. close to, but not boyfriend) doesn't open up. It frustrates me continually. I asked him to tell me how he feels about things, and it literally ended the conversation. I haven't heard a peep since then (4 days now), except for a link he sent me. I don't get it either. I don't know whether to get things out the way you did or to have this stupid silent treatment game that we have. I loathe the games, and my interest is almost gone.
Posted Thu Feb 11, 2010 07:07 PM
See, Meow, that's one thing that gets me that i NEED to clarify with him. Prior to hooking up with his friend, i had no idea how he felt for me. He treated me like a fly by night thing, like out of sight out of mind. He never told me he cared about me until after we had sex. If he had told me, or at least shown it, i never would have hooked up with his friend. When i hooked up with his friend, him and I weren't even talking and i really thought it was done and over with. I really don't want him to think i'm anything less than i am, or change his opinion of me in any way. And i certainly don't want him to lose his faith or trust in me. Most importantly, i don't want to lose him. If i have to remain his friend from here on out, that's fine, i'll do what i need to do.
Posted Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:01 PM
I say get it all out like i did. I don't know how you can do that. I mean, mine started to open up after we finally took the plunge and had sex (we had only fooled around/oral prior because i had an extreme trust issue with him). I had "threatened" and even followed through many times that if he didn't shape up, he could kiss my ass goodbye. That never worked. I begged and pleaded and threw fits, i tried playing hurt, playing angry. It never worked. One day i guess he just decided to open up and tell me (somewhat) how he felt. I'm sure that had to do a little with guilt. Hey, you can always go hook up with one of his friends and that outta do the trick Only kidding...
Posted Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:43 PM
Speaking from my manipulative past (never going back there again, sickening to think how i used to be), a guy will play to your nurturing and compassionate side and then once he knows he's got you hooked, then move it towards something sexual. Once he's done that and got what he was after, most likely he'll revert to as he was b4 with not talking for a while and distance himself until he feels the urge again. Men are very predatory, and although this can be quite attractive, it means we go after what we want and once the chase is up and we have our kill (sex in this case) we lose interest, until the next chase (whether it be you or another target). He'll never admit his "true feelings" since there are none, an easy way to discover this is when you ask your guy to talk about how he feels he meets your question with a hostile defence or a shut down of the topic. If your guy really has feelings for you (whether they be confusing or not, they're still feelings), then it shouldn't be a problem in expressing them. Never hurts to talk about your feelings, it shows trust and honesty. Understandable that if you've been seeing your guy for a few weeks and is still not sure about how he feels, but seriously, anything after that he should have at least some idea. If he has none then it should be clear that it's purely sexual and nothing more.
As for sleeping with a guys friends, or anyone else rather, won't surface any feelings he's hiding. Instead it creates ones of jealousy (towards the person you've slept with, not the best if it's a friend of his) and possessiveness (usually if you're amazing in bed and he doesn't want to loose the access).
One rule of thumb though for guys (if you're reading this), actions speak stronger than words. Although the words are nice to hear (for instance "I love you" or anything romantic of the sort) they mean nothing unless backed up by actions which reinforce it. They don't have to be anything massive like 1000 roses or jewellery, but more the smaller things, like listening to her when she's had a rough day, or a hug and a kiss (one of those soft passionate ones that let her know that she means so much to you) that you give without any intention of it leading to sex. Sex or intimacy doesn't count (at least not by itself).
In all of this I'm not saying all men are horrible manipulative pricks, most aren't. But it's important to be able to recognise the ones that are and stop wasting your time with them and move on. Sex is great, don't get me wrong, but when you're looking for more than that and you're being played around, the time you spent doing that you could have found someone who can offer you the emotional bond you're looking for. And as most of you know, sex with the one you love or the one you're falling in love with is far more satisfying than just sex with someone. If that makes sense.
I hope this has helped in some way, i know 1/2 of it sounds like i'm speaking to the women and 1/2 to the men out there but when i get on a train of thought i just go with it lol
I hope everything works out though in your respective circumstances and feel free to question anything I've said
Posted Fri Mar 05, 2010 03:23 PM
I haven't been with either of them since Bob and I had sex. I haven't seen Tom. I have seen Bob, however. He is really bothered by the fact that blew Tom (in reality Tom and I were together more than once, but i made it sound like once when i told Bob). He brought it up in front of a bunch of people, even. I told him i didn't want to talk about it there, and he wanted to continue on. He acted very weird, his body language was screaming "uncomfortable/upset". Hands in his pockets, rocking back and forth on his feet, looking away from me. He kept saying "It's really okay with me, that's all i'm saying." and i kept saying "It's irrelevant now, i'm not going there with Tom." and once again we got like... nowhere.
This same night, he made a lot of comments while he was performing about his "ex" girlfriend. I am pretty certain at this point that they are split up now, but when/how it happened i'm not sure. Tom told me they were always off and on, so i shouldn't be extremely upset about it. It bothers me that i was the person he ran to all the time, but there's nothing i can do about it now.
I want Bob. I care about him a lot. But mostly, i want him sexually. If we can get past all this, i would love to continue a friends with benefits relationship with him. I know a lot of you are going to think i'm crazy. I know i will likely get hurt in the end, but if you knew the sexual chemistry we have, you would understand. It's worth it, to me. I have been trying to give him space, let him maybe "get over it" a little bit. It's obvious he's going through a lot of stuff with the ex that has him messed up. I think it shocked him that i had not only moved passed him, but had gone to his friend. I'm sure that hurt him and that hurts me, because i don't want to hurt anyone no matter what they've done to me. This may be just what needed to happen. I was always there no matter what he did, maybe this "woke him up". But i'm not through yet I'm there for him, i'm making myself known. I'm keeping in touch. He's not ignoring me. But he's not being overly chatty either. I'm not going to be pushy, but we do need to talk about all of this more. I need to tell him how i feel. He needs to be aware of how deeply my feelings flow. But at the same time, he has to realize that I have a very realistic outlook on our relationship. We would never work in any serious way. Even if we wanted to try, i don't think i would. I don't want to ruin our friendship. But i just have to get more out of the sexual aspect of this if i can!!
Basically where i stand right now, i am making it clear that i'm still interested. I'm making it clear that i am there if he needs me, not necessarily sexually, but for support in what he's going through. I want him to tell me everything, but i'm not going to extract it out of him like he seems to want! Basically, it all hinges on if he can see himself being with me sexually knowing i was with his friend. And sadly, i think a lot of what bothered him may have been that his friend is black. If this all means he doesn't want a thing to do with me in that way, i'll have to get over that. But if he feels half of what i do for him (sexually) - it's not over yet.
I really hope it's not, call me crazy! I am wild for this guy.
ETA: I actually feel like we are closer now than we have ever been before, on a friendship level. Weird how that works, huh? I have never felt like i "know" him as well as i do right now.
This post has been edited by LyricalOne: Fri Mar 05, 2010 03:27 PM
Posted Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:12 AM
I agree with Acidfighter.
I obviously don't know the guy, but I have known plenty of guys like him.
As much as you say you're ok with it... there's a reason you ended it in the first place.
The fact that you just stated that you know its not serious and that all you want is sex.. well I guessif that's what you want, then go for it. But be forward with him. The best way is to putt how you feel in the open so no toes are stepped on.
Guys like this keep in contact for that chance of the sex, and if you're ok with that then I guess go for it.
However, keep in mind it is verrrrrrrry difficult to cut ties with past feelings and still keep a sexual relationship healthy.
Sex releases those emotions, whether yyou believe you supressed them or not.
I am not trying to be too critical hun, but this is my opinion.
I do think, though, that if you were really certain about it... you wouldn't be asking others for advice.
Its your brains way of trying to overpower your lust.
Maybe you should listen to your head.
Posted Tue Mar 09, 2010 08:03 PM
I'm still really not sure what's gonna happen here, but we're still in contact. Just friendly for now, might be all it is from now on, i really don't know yet.
I miss him a lot... i'm determined to solve this puzzle!
Posted Fri Mar 19, 2010 04:51 PM
A few days ago i saw Bob again. We cleared the air about the issue with Tom. And we ended up hooking up. It was amazing, though that's not the point at all. You can read about it in my blog!
He took me to his new APT, and now at least i know that he does NOT live with the girl any more. He talked to me about her, even. They are still having issues. He's still torn up about it. When i see him talk about her i realize... There's no room for me in his life right now. I'm doing everything i can to show him how much i care about him, and show him what a real woman is like (I'm getting the idea that this girl is NOT very mature and she is using him, from what i've heard - especially for money when he doesn't even have any). He told me again how much he cares about me and that i "help" when he's having a hard time - i don't know whether to take that as a compliment but it'll do for now. I'm sure they're still sleeping together... but who knows, i have no right to ask seeing as I've slept with people on him.
I'm still giving him his distance. I'm letting him figure out what he's doing, and i'm hoping maybe he'll see what's staring him in the face: Me. I don't think we could ever be together, but at least we could both pass lonely nights together and have some fun before moving on. We'll see what happens from here.
I am coming to terms with the fact that i am madly in love with this man. What that means, i'm not real sure. It's gonna hurt to walk away, whether i do it now or later.