Anything but sex before marriage My girlfriend won't have sex with me.
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 04:15 AM
I have an issue with the fact that as a practicing Catholic, she obviously wants to preserve her virginity for her husband. However, doesn't the church also consider any form of sexual release sin unless you are married? The church doesn't allow any it! She gave me head the other day, it took three times as long this time, maybe I was subconsciously killing my arousal because of how conflicted I felt. I'm starting to feel like in the eyes of God, she shouldn't reduce herself to sin just to satisfy me with oral. I love her very much, and I think this would be a lot easier if I had the same ideals she does. It doesn't seem too acceptable to have such a lenient faith. I just feel conflicted.
I also think about the future. She is preserving her virginity for her future husband. It's a nice gift to receive when you get married I imagine. However, is it really a gift if you've had another man's penis inside your mouth, or another mans mouth on your genitals? I myself would be even more conflicted to marry a woman who has given blowjobs only, than to marry a woman who has gone all the way with a past boyfriend.
We are both very naive, this is the first long term relationship for the both of us. We are also both 20 year old virgins. I'm not sure how to fully confront her about this without either getting into an argument and breaking it off with her, or stressing her out with too much pressure. What should I do?
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 05:59 AM
The bible doesn't really get into specifics (i've read the entire old testament and a good portion of new) but one can safely assume that oral is the same sin as pre-marital sex, it IS called oral sex. Also, oral sex in place of vaginal penetrative intercourse basically counts as an alternative contraceptive, ie indulging in sexual acts without procreation, which is also a catholic-specific sin.
Birth control and condoms are also sins. abortions result in excommunication. lovely huh?
If you want to get real technical here as per the ideals of Catholicism, there are two major groups of sin, 'venial' sin and 'mortal' sin. premarital sex or extramarital sex falls into a grey area known as 'grave' sin, which also includes divorce and masturbation. So premarital sex is the same sin as masturbation, oh dear..
don't lose sleep over it. talk to her, is it really the great good all powerful all knowledgeable god in heaven stopping her from having sex, or is a little insecurity, some fear of the unknown or something like that?
Return the favor and give HER some oral. She might respond well, she might lose the struggle against temptation and give in. Careful not to pressure her, it would probably push her away. You guys aren't teens, you're both above the age of consent. The bible also says to follow and abide by the laws of the government. (I won't get into WHY that's in there, thats another heinous theory of mine) The government places no restrictions on sex other than the age of consent, which you're both exceeding.
I'm pretty knowledgeable about religion for an Atheist, huh? None of this is misleading or made up either, I took a college class (and probably 7 or 8 years of after-school religion class needed to do communion/comfirmation) on religious studies and I'm pretty familiar with Catholicism, Judaism and Islam, as well as Buddhism and Daoism. Can't help much with the eastern orthodox and various english and american divisons of christianity.
This post has been edited by smartguyswin: Thu Jun 10, 2010 06:03 AM
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 06:24 AM
Stepping away from religion, historically the "gift" of virginity was to ensure to the husband that AT LEAST his first born kid would be his own. Not so romantic, is it? Marketing virginity as a "gift" is just a way to candy coat and romanticize the fact that sexual incompatibility and shame will probably haunt the marriage; and the fact that it's too easy for people to turn outward to "solve" incompatibility issue via affairs, porn, and the final straw, divorce (although technically a sin to devotees, can also be added to the list of cherry picking).
This post has been edited by cocoa70: Thu Jun 10, 2010 06:28 AM
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 07:49 AM
I AM Catholic... I was raised by nuns, educated by Jesuits, and never comprehended the orthodoxy of the North American church in these regards. You should know that there are different expressions of Catholicism. I for one, profess what is called the Liberation Theology. You may look it up in Wikipedia, but it's not easy reading.
Now, eclesiastical politics aside, in all my years with the nuns, and talks with the priests, I was never told NOT to have pre-marital sex. Now, they didn't encourage it, but in the greater scheme of things, that would never add to whether you're a good Catholic or not. Priorities is the key. You're not doing any good or bad to others with a consensual sexual act. Now, consider the situation where you see someone (dirty and intoxicated) bleeding on the sidewalk... Would you get involved at all? I know a lot of variables come to your head, and that's fair. However, this is where your actions matter, when you're in the position to do something positive for somebody else.
It is very unfortunate that the Catholic church where you live relies so much on guilt to explain the doctrine. That shouldn't be so, in my humble opinion. The doctrine should be taught in positive active terms with the purpose to better your life and that of others. Celibacy is a choice expected from nuns and priests since they make a vow to dedicate their lives to the faith. You and your girlfriend are excempt from this requirement, so I don't understand why shove it onto you, and maybe you should have discussions with your girlfriend to fully understand what you want to achieve with not having sex at all, but beliefs are something difficult to change.
I also understand that you're questioning the hypocrisy of oral sex in the absence of vaginal sex, and that's understandable. It's ridiculous, but these are the twisted results you get when you're using guilt as a tool to instigate faith. I'm really sorry that happened to you both.
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 07:52 AM
That's right SGW... I actually confessed that I had two children with a man without getting married in the faith (only civilly) and got absolved... What they were going to do? Yell at me for being a sinner... I don't think so.
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:39 PM
From what I get from you, smartguyswin, Is that I should go to my girlfriend with a pad and a paper and ask her questions from a carefully prepared list. I have already gotten into arguments about her faith and they were all bad. Maybe it's not a question of faith to her, she might be hiding the fact that she's afraid of that level of intimacy with me.
To everyone else. I know that people from all over the world tend to look at their faith differently, and modify it depending on the level of commitment they have to their faith. I'm still tolerant of those people since I was once like that, but now it's created this utmost ridiculous scenario involving me.
I want to improve our relationship, but the only way would be to change her misconceived ideals about premarital sex. Maybe I'm just meant to make the best of what I have right now, and if that's true then I don't know how long I'm going to last with her.
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 01:05 PM
ESPECIALLY living in New York. These gangsta's with tha chainz n da rosary 'round mah neck praise the lord whal I pop a cap in dis bitch righ hur. But they claim to be devout.
Ok, so thats a far extreme but I feel like it's the same thing everywhere. People claim to have this absolute faith and honor etc etc etc but bend the rules as they see fit. It's ok to kill a rival thug? Or is it ok because you're wearing a cross the size of an infant?
Back to the sexual issue though, back on track here. I don't advise pen and paper, you need to have a little finesse handling touchy topics. MOST young women i've met that claimed to want to be a virgin till they were married were just extremely insecure. I can name probably 3 different ladies who I went to school with and always said the same thing. And then they got a boyfriend, spent 6 months with them and finally opened up sexually, renouncing everything they had previously said about sex.
i've also seen the rebel catholic chicks, that's extremely predictable in the majority of cases whenever you force something on to someone. But that attitude usually surfaces in the teens hormone rampage. If she made it to 20 without going wild yet, it's safe to say she is probably a very respectful, possibly shy and nervous person.
I completely agree with taking it for a test drive before signing a title. Sexual compatibility might be one of the most important aspects of a relationship, for me anyway. I would never be able to be with a pure vanilla sex-once-every-other-week woman. when you're a kid, you play outside, you play in the living room, you play on the kitchen floor, you play at school. as adults, for the rest of your life, what the hell do you have to look foward to? work? work? maybe.. work? or that little bit of time where mommy and daddy get to play.. in the bedroom like adults do. Very little fun or excitement in life otherwise. I can't wait until 10:30 tonight, after dinner and showers and stuff when i'll finally be able to have MY fun. I don't understand marrying on the blind.. Then you just have sex to make babies? surely that doesn't even have to be enjoyable. It's not like sex is the ultimate indulgence in a couple's life or anything.. (rolling my eyes...) Even the church agrees that sex is a beautiful thing for married couples to have together. But what if it just doesn't work? Then you get a divorce and shunned more? Divorce are public and legal matters, having sex outside of a marriage isn't.
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 01:20 PM
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 01:51 PM
I commend you for coming here and posting with us, asking for advice. That shows that you truly care and want to do the right thing.
You need to talk to her about this. Tell her you don't want to do anything she is not comfortable with, and you do not want her to feel as if she is required to do anything for you to keep you happy. If this isn't true, if you can't be with her without the sex, it is completely understandable. You are not Catholic. Think about the future, this relationship may very well not be what you want/need.
Are you not crazy in love?
That statement right there, alone, is why i am saying the following.
Perhaps you need to reevaluate your entire relationship with this woman. From top to bottom, side to side. Why are you with her? You said you're not too compatible sexually, even with oral (although this could go back to her religion and her not feeling 100% comfortable with the act of oral), so that's one thing. Obviously the religion is going to cause problems, now and later. Why are you with her? What defines your relationship?
Evaluate. And do the right thing. It just may not be right, happens every single day (just happened to me, i "saw the light" just a few days ago and it took me over a year of heartache to realize i was fighting a losing battle).
Basically - are you in love with her enough to potentially have no sexual relations until marriage?
Talk to her and find out if she is second-guessing herself or not, and go from there.
Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010 09:49 PM
I think you're looking too far into this issue. You may have to wait for intercourse, but if she seems happy, then trust that.
Posted Fri Jun 11, 2010 05:15 AM
Are you not crazy in love?
Ask yourself, could you even begin to fall in love knowing that a sexual connection might be strained or non-existent?
I couldn't. I don't know if that's considered shallow by today's standards, I think not. Especially since i'm not a virgin anymore, it's not blind virgin romantic hope. The sexual aspect is real, definitive and necessary. I don't know for sure, but I think it's safe to assume that lack of sex or no sexual connection could be one of the more popular reasons for divorce, right behind money issues and infidelity.
I think your concerns are appropriate. 5 or 6 months is a good chunk of time to be in a relationship with no sex involved. I'm sure you're looking for some assurance that if you wait longer, it might come. She might tell you if you ask.
Posted Fri Jun 11, 2010 08:51 AM
Question, why are you pursuing a person who has religious beliefs so entrenched that are different from yours?
This is not a question of convincing her, but of knowing yourself better I think.
A compatible belief system is basic for a relationship. I wouldn't want to change anyone and try to convince them to do as I think or as I say. I may not agree with what some people believe, but hey, it's their lives, and as long as they're not intruding in my life, they have the right to do, think and believe as they please. You see, I have no objections whatsoever to mingle with people of different religions or no religion at all, but I'm damn sure that there are certain things that I would never do in the name of love, and no offence to anyone here, but I would never wear a veil, or even stop wearing red lipstick, or shave my mound for love. Whatever I decide to do with my body is my own business and nobody else's.
So, if this is the case with your girlfriend, you're pretty much stuck. Of course, you don't want to try to convince her to do something she's not comfortable with, but at the same time, you have your own "beliefs" as to how a relationship should be carried out. You ask yourself if there's common ground, otherwise, you're better off leaving her alone.
Posted Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:25 AM
Since we're both atheist (which I never even thought to ask her in the beginning, it kinda popped up one day), my girlfriend wouldn't be offended by some of the things I say. If I had a religious girlfriend, she probably wouldn't be to thrilled about some of my comments, might even cause an argument and a fight. Likewise, I doubt i'd be able to resist mocking her beliefs, i'm just a smart ass.
If I sat down at her family's dinner table and they said a prayer, i'd have to force myself to be respectful and keep my mouth shut.. because I thank myself for the food on my table, i thank myself for working hard, not a higher figure for blessing us with the gift of food. it's not a gift to me, i worked, i earned, i eat.
And if she decided to speak a prayer out loud before bed time, I don't know if I could resist answering her and saying 'you're welcome young one, now go blow your boyfriend'. In public i'd be ok, but in my home.. As it is, i struggle to keep comments to myself at work, there's a few guys who are religious, one is even a minister or something, he asked me if I wanted ashes on Ash wednesday, and I nearly snorted..
now that I think about it, i'd probably pass this girl on to someone else, I might feel bad taking her blessed virginity that actually means something to her. I highly doubt it'd last long enough anyway, and I wouldn't be able to marry her myself. Most religious people from religious families tend to want a wedding in church. I'll be buried alive before I pay $500+ "mandatory donation" to a church for a wedding service. I refuse to pay for legal defense of priests who can't keep their hands off of children. (which was several million dollars in recent years)
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:53 PM
Every question i asked her she couldnt answer she said she would have to ask the father. Now that got me thinking that its not actually about what she believes but her religion and beliefs were forced upon her by her family.
Her parents are into the religion so much and made their kids do the same so that never really gave her a chance to see anything different. I stopped questioning and bringing up anything about religion. You see im athiest as well and she wanted to marry in a church but i wouldnt allow it as most of my family is athiest. I made sure of that it will go that way cuz its not fair everything has to be about her.
You know when your in love you should be more then willing to make sacrafices and i have by following her beliefs like no sex before marriage and also she wont live with me before married. Screws me over too because soon I need to get out and start my own life and without her there to help me on the bills it will be a struggle for me.
Your pretty much screwed on this one man im sorry but you will never win. Some people act very immature when it comes to their religion and get too defensive because they dont want to be proven wrong. Its hard to go through everyday knowing that it will be at least another 5 years till i can have sex with her or even live with her it really hurts. It also sucks because what if your not sexually compatible when that time finally comes. Sexual frustration and problems do cause a lot of divorces as well as money. So imagine having to wait 5 years only to realize it cant happen. Either you wait it out to find that out yourself or you just stick with the oral.
Maybe your gf will open up your relationship a bit and allow you to have sex with other girls as long as she is aware of it. On that though you will have to allow her to bring that up on her own. My gf did that too me but i couldnt do it i tried talking to another girl but felt so bad just talking so i couldnt even get myself to touch her.
I wish you all the luck on your problem and just think it out very well before you make any decisions.