Need help with wife breaking "the rules"
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 05:14 PM
The guy (this is pushing it, previously it's been all girls) has asked her to send pics. She asked me what I thought, and we agreed on some rules - no pics she wouldn't let me take of her, which means no full nudity, no nipples, no genitalia, and for videos, no explicit activity.
I've broken one of the rules - I've snooped. I've read her email to see what she's sending.
She just sent a video to him of herself masturbating under her panties, but topless - and it shows nipples.
I've broken the rules... but because I did, I know she did. This isn't the first time, either. One of the rules was originally she had to show me everything she took, sent or not - she lied and told me I'd seen everything, then sent him some I hadn't seen. I relaxed that rule this morning, but I never changed the full nudity or explicit activity rule.
I have to consider that this is a test - to see whether I complain about it, thus revealing that I'm snooping.
I also have to be patient - I had just, an hour ago, asked her if I could watch her masturbating... so maybe she'll end up showing it to me.
I want her to be able to have her fun... but I also want to feel like I can trust her. I'm starting to feel like I can't trust her - but then again, can she trust me if I'm reading her emails?
How do I resolve this? How do I make myself be ok with this? How do I make myself stop snooping - and I want to - when I know she's breaking the rules?
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 05:34 PM
And even more info: I've been asking to take pics of her for years, and she's always said no - especially not naked pics. I'm actually really glad to see that she's confident enough to allow pics and vids like this to be taken of her... but I'm really jealous that some other guy is getting to enjoy it and I'm not.
This post has been edited by Dabeer: Sat Nov 27, 2010 05:43 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 06:17 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 06:21 PM
The nudity restriction was HER restriction, not mine - she has never allowed me to take nude photos of her, and swore she would never be taking nude photos of herself, because she's not comfortable with that getting out onto the internet.
Part one of the problem is that when we entered into the agreement, I was of the understanding that it was so she could be with other women. For her to enter into a relationship with another man was not at all what I was expecting.
I'm getting used to the idea, slowly... right now I'm just really jealous that she has started taking nude pics and explicit vids, but isn't sharing them with me. The continued snooping is so that I don't miss out on those pics.
This post has been edited by Dabeer: Sat Nov 27, 2010 06:36 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 06:29 PM
Strangely, I don't have a problem with that part.
Besides the pictures, I've been bothered by the idea that she's basically infatuated with this guy, has him on her mind all day and all night, even txting him while at Thanksgiving dinner with family. I'm getting over this part, because the sex we've been having has been out of this world, but...
I should also say that I was not at all expecting to have this reaction. I usually like the fact that she's turned on by something, or has someone turned on by her. She even almost left me for one of her female crushes, and I wasn't bothered by that... and yet this has taken a week for me to come back to something close to normalcy.
The continued snooping, and I really am trying to stop, is just to see what other pics I'm missing out on. I get SO turned on by them, and I've told her so, but she somehow thinks it's ok to send him 5 for every 1 she sends me... and that's being generous, she's sent him about 20, plus one nude and explicit video... and yet only 1 non-nude, non-explicit pic to me. She claims it's because I get to see her every day... but she doesn't get it how the pictures are just different, and I really really REALLY want to see them.
Edit: to be fair, up until this vid, the 1 pic she did send me showed more than any other pic she'd previously taken... but the vid has leapfrogged over that in a HUGE way.
This post has been edited by Dabeer: Sat Nov 27, 2010 06:31 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 06:44 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 06:56 PM
We've already discussed this, and she reminded me that the arrangement was made so that she could explore the sexuality that was repressed during her years as a Mormon, and that there was no restriction as to gender. We've had this arrangement for years, and it's been fine...
We've spent a week talking... it keeps getting easier and easier for me to handle, because honestly I am excited to see her feeling this good about herself (she's been depressed for a long time)... and because honestly I don't think humans are meant to be monogamous, and if I want to be free to be with other women, I have to give her the same freedom. Restricting her to just women, she claims, would be like her restricting me to just white girls.
Edit: I've been a complete mess, crying once a day it feels like... not sleeping... and she's pissed at me for that. Pissed that I'm making her feel guilty about what she's doing, when she feels like I had already agreed to it. Feels like it's hypocritical of me, considering that I'm in contact with a girl I'd like to have sex with - and I do agree with this part. But dammit I've tried everything I can to tell her how I've been feeling.. she's talked me out of feeling like she's actually cheating... but the pictures thing I feel like she's just pushing the rules, thinking I'll never find out.
It's not so much that she's going out of her way to hide them... but rather that she's not sharing them with me when she knows I'd be interested in seeing them. But I take your point.
She swears that this is just for the sex, that there is no possibility of her leaving me for him (we've been best friends since grade school, and losing me would kill her - she says, and her female best friend, to which she confides everything, confirms this)...
I think I just need to find a way to get her to show me the pics without her feeling pressured. I need to find a way to explain to her how strongly I feel about seeing her pics, how incredibly sexy I find them, and how arousing they are to me. Pressure, to her, is a mood killer... I don't want to pressure her... but dammit I want to be sent those pics and vids.
This post has been edited by Dabeer: Sat Nov 27, 2010 07:00 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 07:03 PM
One more thought... If trust is the most important thing to her, and me snooping breaks that trust... but me snooping reveals info that leads me to believe that she is behaving dishonestly with me, breaking my trust...
How can I call her on it without revealing my own dishonesty?
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 07:23 PM
1. When the rules were first made, the rule was she had to show me everything she took, sent or unsent. She was never honest about when she had taken pics, requiring me to ask, thus pressuring her and making her not want to show me.
2. She lied to my face when I asked her if she had shown me every pic she'd taken. I knew there were 3 she'd sent him that she hadn't shown me - and I later found a few more - but she swore she'd shown me everything. I also caught her in another lie, but she claimed that something she'd said was said before my feelings were made clear and so it shouldn't count as a lie.
3. She promised that if she ever took nude or explicit photos she'd send them to me first. She broke that promise.
It's possible that she believes I let her out of that promise... but I'm not sure how she could have come to that conclusion.
I believe I have just cause to call her on it... but as I said before, she is my best friend too, and I don't want to lose her - and revealing that I broke her trust would probably end us.
Even if it doesn't end the marriage, I don't want to ruin her new-found willingness to take photos and vids of herself.
This post has been edited by Dabeer: Sat Nov 27, 2010 07:25 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 09:03 PM
I will wait and see if she sends it to me. If she does, I'll try to turn it into an opportunity to ask her to stop.
If she doesn't... I hate to think this might be the end of our marriage, but I'm not sure how much more room for doubt I can allow.
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 09:13 PM
One, you need to sit down and have a serious talk about the "rules"... First of all, they're not consistent. How's that she can sleep around and not send nude pics over the net? That doesn't make sense... In this regard, I suggest that you put the "openness" on hold until you can come up with something that makes more sense. Were guys off limits in the initial agreement, or you forgot about them, and in your mind the agreement was only other women?
Two, and this one goes before number one, you need to be honest with yourself and evaluate your feelings. I think that if all this is causing you harm, sorrow, some kind of emotional effect that is not positive, you need to be frank and NOT, I repeat, NOT evaluate it in relation to what you do to her, but simply on terms of your own emotion. What I see here, is that you use your faults, i.e. snooping around, as an excuse for her behaviour. Separate her behaviour from your emotions, and get real with what you feel. Then, you should be able to understand whether this is actually hurting you or not.
Three... You mention you have an "open" marriage, yet she hides things from you, then you suspect and you snoop around. Sorry, that's a shaky trust to begin with, and an even shakier marriage. And how is this that the openness is valid for having sex with other partners and not for you to go in her mailbox. If she was really that open, she wouldn't mind, would she?
No, I'm afraid your open marriage is not working the way it should. I would confront her, and not let it make it an issue of I sent pics and you snooped so we're even. That's simply not it... Things are never black or white, and two wrongs don't make somethig right. So, I'll say you need to come to terms with your emotions, let her know how you feel, tell her that you snooped and that you know what's going on, and that things need to be put on hold until you both find a better arrangement for your open marriage.
If you ask me, I'd say she doesn't hold too much respect for you, and that's not a very good sign, even if she wasn't "breaking the rules", which to me, sound more like she's cheating on you.
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 09:41 PM
We've been talking about them all week... she keeps breaking them, and then getting me to relax them so that her previous activity isn't considered breaking them. That being said, my feelings about those rules have gotten better over that week, so I'm not sure I would blame her for this.
I need to stand up to her about this... but I don't want to be hypocritical either, because it's not like I haven't had online GFs before, including one now that I met at my bro's wedding, and was all up on her in front of both our families.
She has never before expressed an interest in sending pics. This is the first time. The no nudity is NOT MY RULE, it's HERS. I have asked her if I could take naked pics of her. She was EMPHATIC about saying no, because she doesn't want them to get onto the internet and embarrass her sometime in the future.
When she started sharing pics with this guy, the understanding was that they would be PG-13 at most. I was ok with that, and even took some of the pics for her.
Because she knows of my interest in nude pics, and because she knows of her refusal to take them or allow them to be taken, she promised me that if she ever changed her mind I would be the first to know and the first to see the pics.
This is the promise she has broken.
I don't remember the exact conversation, but in my mind it was "I can sleep with other girls, and she can too". Maybe guys weren't explicitly included or excluded, but I know for sure that neither of us expected her to go for one.
I'll spend some time thinking that one through.
I don't know... I think she'd say no because she doesn't want my feelings to get hurt by seeing the things she says to him... but this is definitely an idea worth considering.
A second thought suggest that she will say that she thinks the outside relationships need to be kept separate from our marriage so as not to blur the line.
I would actually be quite OK with this idea.
I worry that telling her I snooped will completely destroy our marriage. Other than that, your advice has merit.
I wish I could disagree with you.
This post has been edited by Dabeer: Sat Nov 27, 2010 09:41 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 09:55 PM
I will HAVE to wait until she sends a pic with nudity to me... Or the topic of pics comes up in conversation... I hope I don't have to wait too long... then I can bring up the promise.
I am going to stop reading her emails. I have to.
I will wait a week or so, then suggest that being truly open means not hiding behind emails.
This post has been edited by Dabeer: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:01 PM
Posted Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:46 PM
This doesn't stop me completely... but it makes it much harder.
Posted Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:30 AM
I am just reading your side and it sounds bad. Your marriage sounds in trouble but I am not you, so judge it for yourself honestly! Take a step back and look hard at it. You are not comfortable with her and yourself right now and need to do something about it. It seams as she is using her past as an excuse to run all over you. She is manipulating you to her needs and not for good at all. Stop making excuses and do what is right for all.
I truly hope things work out for you.
Posted Sun Nov 28, 2010 04:23 PM
I try to... she manages to turn the conversation around on me every time.
I even found a pic she forgot to delete from the camera, and left her a note reminding her of her promise... and she's managed to turn that around on me too.
How would revealing that I've read her email be right for all? Because right now, that's the only way I see out - but it would be almost certain to ruin the marriage. Maybe I can find a way to get her to show me her email instead of me snooping on it.
This post has been edited by Dabeer: Sun Nov 28, 2010 04:23 PM
Posted Sun Nov 28, 2010 05:23 PM
I really don't want to do that... yes I'm not happy with what she's doing right now, but in the long run she and I are best friends, have been since grade school.
Posted Sun Nov 28, 2010 07:09 PM
She felt justified in sending the vid to the other guy because of that.
She was planning on sending it to me when I was at work. She doesn't see the point in sending it to me when I'm on the couch next to her.
I've tried to explain to her the level of interest I have in her photos... how it makes me jealous that she sends them to the other guy all the time but not to me... apparently that's because he's not pestering her for the, but I am.
I need to go see a therapist, I think. Get some anti-anxiety meds.
And I need to teach myself to trust her - because it seems, in hindsight, that there wasn't anything to doubt in the first place.
Posted Sun Nov 28, 2010 07:29 PM
Posted Sun Nov 28, 2010 09:55 PM
Texting someone while at thanksgiving dinner isn't on, its not acceptable, sending stuff she won't give you, isn't acceptable and the fact that you've posted everything you have, shows that clearly you are not dealing with this at all.
Your wife may call it an open relationship but its not if she's hiding stuff, hiding stuff means she's actually cheating on you.
being friends from gradeschool doesn't mean a thing, its nothing to do with the fact that your marriage has taken a turn that you didnt bank on.
Have it out with her and either end the open marriage until you both understand what it means and are both comfortable with it, or end your marriage. You need to be respected, not cast aside