Missile hit on MH17
Posted Sun Jul 20, 2014 09:22 PM
Out of interest I have 2 questions for you all
1) What will happen do you think in the future for Russia
2) What would you do if u had the power to make the decision
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2014 03:50 AM
Though it certainly seems that the plane was brought down after being hit by a missile fired from the separationist controlled part of Eastern Ukraine, I would still wait until we have more confirmed and undeniable facts before claiming to KNOW what actually happened...
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2014 06:40 AM
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2014 08:41 AM
Europe has not got a strong leadership. Most of the European union politicians are spineless and are there only for the easy life. And i believe there are no victims from the USA. So it's not there problem.
Some of the murdered innocent travelers
The BUK M1 ready to shoot and kill 298 innocent men women and CHILDREN
The Russians sneaking the BUK M1 Back to Russia
What i would do is isolate Russia stop importing there natural gas and other resources and products . close the borders.
very describing and sad what goes on in the world today
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2014 02:14 PM
This in now way is disrespect to those who may have lost their lives in the incident or to their families.
There are so few real facts about this incident and yet so many are calling for embargoes, boycotts and even some sort of a military action.
For those who are not familiar with it, BUK-1 was introduced into the service in early 1980s and since then 10s of thousands of conscripts have been trained to use these. So was there a real need for Russia to send "trained operators"? Not really. Was it supplied by Russians in the first place? We don't know.
Early on July 17th, several hours before MH17 was destroyed, journalists from the Associated Press reported seeing a launcher near Snezhnoye that they said looked like a Buk system. So they just happened to be there and report about seeing something what they think it was BUK? SAM launch is a violent even that could not have gone unnoticed in an urban area. With people having smartphones and posting all sorts of stuff on social media sites it is a little bit strange that no one actually have made or posted such a recording.
What I find fascinating is that literally minutes after breaking the news media "knew" what type of missile system was used, who gave the order, and who fired it. Fascinating indeed.
There's a lot of conflicting, hear-say, and outright fabricated info about this incident. Just as an example, take a look at THIS Youtube video and read THIS article.
Posted Fri Jul 25, 2014 02:39 AM
Everyone with a fully functional brain knows dammed well that Vladimir Putin is the puppet master that ultimately pulled the strings that controlled the finger that pushed that button.
Yeah well, a fully functioning brain is just as susceptible to disinformation, rumours, propaganda etc. as a not so fully functioning brain. Whether or not the rebels and/or the russians did shoot down the plane one should still be critical of the information one receives through the mass media.
A fully functioning brain might remember that during previous and still ongoing conflicts around the world a lot of information, "truths", evidence and allegations made and given by the media, governments and active conflict participants have turned out to be untrue, unfounded and in many cases outright lies.
This has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness ( even though one might think that accepting, without questions, the information given by western media, or russian media if you are russian, is the politically correct thing to do - NOT to question it.
This post has been edited by Seraphangelo: Fri Jul 25, 2014 02:58 AM
Posted Fri Jul 25, 2014 06:19 AM
COULD a rebel have learned, after long training, to run such a system. Yes. But it is far more likely the button was pushed by a Russian officer...you can not train people that quickly, and even if trained would have supervision for months after the training.
Posted Thu Jul 31, 2014 05:37 PM
Posted Fri Aug 01, 2014 01:05 AM
Russia has never had a particularly prosperous or robust economy. For virtually it's entire existence, it's economic fortunes have ranged from disasterous to "meh..." at best. Russia is quite a costumed to economic hardship and dismal economic realities. We westerners are not. When the economy takes a dump, we get pretty fussy....we like being able to waste money. Russians really don't consider $52k+ year jobs an entitlement. So even if we did impose super freak-nasty sanctions in them, it wouldn't work.
What's even more telling is the rise of young Russians who either weren't alive or were too young to remember the days of the Soviet Union, then they were the counterweight to U.S. might...and had somewhat equal leverage in global geo-politics as the U.S...these young Russians read history books of their nation's former glory days, complete with lines for bread and dismal (but free) government services, and readily admit they'll take those crappy economic circumstances to attain the nationalist ambitions of being citizens of the only nation the U.S. feared.
So... Yeah...go ahead and lob those sanctions at Russains who aren't terribly consumed with whether or not they will be able to afford the new Jordans, the iPhone6, or the new Xbox, or a new car or whatever. See if it'll break em into submission, or if it'll strengthen their nationalist resolve to attain the influence and prestige that was once associated with the Soviet Union. I vote the latter will happen.
Posted Fri Aug 01, 2014 05:53 PM
Posted Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:27 PM
I rather disagree. The USSR was no purveyor of WWIII...remember, it was Soviet Premier Khrushchev that backed down during the Cuban Missile Crisis. He was the prevailing "cooler head". JFK was ready to launch the ICBM's and end it all. Russians aren't purely non-aggressive, and they have a penchant for doing the whole "go big or go home" thing (google "tsar bomba"), but with the few examples of world-ending stakes that exist, it was the USSR that decided some banana republic island led by a fucktard (Castro) and his self-contradicting sycophant (Che Gueverra) weren't worth ending the world over. The United States was willing to end the world over Cuba.
Our political leaders are every bit as psychotic as we think other nations' crazy leaders are. I promise. Don't believe me? Here's one who thinks that putting too many people on an island will cause it to overturn.
It's having government that's that stupid that will cause WWIII...Not Russia becoming pointlessly proud of itself.
Posted Sat Aug 02, 2014 05:51 AM
Not directly related but this The Guardian's article is an interesting read. There's a PBS documentary about it as well. In the words of Robert McNamara "we came very close to nuclear war, closer than we knew at the time."