Posted Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:53 PM
Why are some people so determined to push their beliefs , points of view , or philosophy of any given topic upon any & all persons possible willing or not ? Why do they do this ?
Personally I respect the beliefs of my fellow human beings & also respect their right to have them regardless of how they relate to mine . I dont care if your Gay , Bi , Hetro , Muslin , Buddhist , Atheist , "whatever" you happen to be . It's a part of who that person is & I'm cool with that . We can interact & they wont have to worry about me thrashing their beliefs & trying to insert mine .
Some however seem obsessed in ranting & raving at those who don't see things as they do , it's like they have to validate their beliefs by attacking the beliefs of others & arguing , bashing , berating , & openly insulting them relentlessly . They will go to incredible lengths & antics when logical tactics fail to accomplish their desired results/goals . I simply don't get it , who knows , maybe I'm better off not getting it
PS : Before the hate mail & claims that I'm targeting certain members , I'm not . I'm only offering a topic for discussion .
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 01:20 AM
I don't get it.
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 01:38 AM
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 02:49 AM
Honestly, I'm sick of some of the people who post on SF, and I'm sure the feeling's mutual. The need to attack members of SF just to prove a point or to strengthen the perception that they "tell it how it is", is sickening, and is honestly becoming a trend around here.
Sorry for the rant within your thread Q, but I just felt the need to voice my opinion. This seemed like the place. Now cue the calvary to come and refute it.
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 05:54 AM
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 06:46 AM
How boring would the world be if we all had the same beliefs.
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 08:07 AM
Here is an example of something recent happening in Belfast, Northern Ireland. A market which had been there on a short term basis is now going to be opened every Sunday. This caused a group of Christians to protest for religious reasons. Repeated incidents like this (and I'm not referring specifically to religion, only using it as an example) I believe is what causes some people to become "fanatic" over time in their own beliefs. Some people develop an active dislike of all religious people or a particular religion, due to the actions of a minority group who attempt to disrupt their own lifestyle. And a religious person who normally minds their own business may develop a dislike of the non-religious because they've had a similar bad experience with an atheist. Both sides end up thinking that they need to convert the other.
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 08:18 AM
Since there are very few things that are "right" for everyone or proved beyond doubt, it is all a game of power. Democracy is a game of power, too. If majority wants something - they vote for it and they get it. So everyone fights for their beliefs all the time. Some have more style and tact and some less and are more abusive in the dialogue and other actions of communication.
The problem is - if you live in a country that enforces certain beliefs and you want to have free choice, will, expression, public space equally open to all ideas, etc. - and you have forced religious or any other kind of fundamentalist laws and education (for the more fundamentalist religious the "forced" teaching of scientific theories of evolution can be regarded as an assault on their rights and belief and (some) fight against it), then you naturally fight against that.
So, it is not that much trying to force your beliefs on another, than to gain freedom to practice your beliefs equally as they can theirs and that the majority of society doesn't follow only one single belief. In atheist-theist debates there is another catch - the atheists try to persuade the ones basing their world view on FAITH with the apparently "rational" and "real" arguments of science. Forgetting that you cannot argue FAITH, you can only argue FACTS, faith (in anything) will prevail, it's inherent in the meaning of this term and the phenomenon it describes. No argument can ever shake faith - if faith is strong enough; since faith is based on deep emotions and complete conviction, not on questioning. If that makes sense is another thing - but that's the cause of all trouble - alleged facts and faith clashing - it is an explosive mixture.
I regard as non-fundamentalists only those who are prepared to accept the possibility that they are wrong - whether they are scientifically minded or the religious folks. We know dog shit about Universe at the moment - all our science is still just a tiny glimpse. It is majestic and grand - you can rightfully call it God and are no less far away from any realization of its true nature than someone who calls it Nature or Universe.
Compared to the whole Universe we are tiny specs of dust trying to have our way on this planet, and part of it constitutes getting a better position, rights, etc. -we don't want to have conditions set by people with the opposite idea of what is good for us - so that's why we have this constant social, cultural and political fight, which can take the form of trying to shove our opinions and beliefs down other people's throats.
This post has been edited by MrVortex: Thu Feb 24, 2011 08:23 AM
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 09:16 AM
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:09 AM
A lot of it has to do with how a person is raised, and lets face it the act of pressuring beliefs on someone isn't exactly recent, its been going on for ages. Only now it typically is just argumentation and protest as opposed to the officials killing off whomever disagreed with them. As we can see in history with Medieval and Spanish inquisitions, The salem witch trials, just to name a couple dealing with religion. Also consider the start of the states, a freedom from britain and it pushing its governmental view across the ocean, that didn't set well, or the civil war, well everything that happens is based on people disagreeing and forcing themselves onto someone else, or a nation onto another nation.
If a person is raised to believe that whatever they study is absolutely right and true and everyone else is evil and wrong, then what do you do when you are older. You treat people like you are right and they are wrong. If you walk in the path of others, commonly you become like those others. In the end its a struggle for power and a protest against change or the possibility of, or maybe they think they are really saving somebody's life.
I don't push my beliefs on anyone to each their own. Everyone has an opinion and if you don't it is typically because someone is weak or unknowledgeable and that is okay too.
Life wouldn't be interesting if everyone's beliefs were the same, but people are entitled to their difference in opinions, they are also entitled to their freedom and don't deserve being punished for their personal beliefs. So long as those beliefs do not impose physical threat on someone else. We can disagree peacefully, but everyone would have to make sacrifices they do not want to or they are just unable to make. I hardly think wars make things interesting, just more complicated and a little more obnoxious.
I know in Christianity, we we're taught (in my church anyway) to evangelize as a practice to share the love. It was often put in the metaphor that if everyone on earth was dying of a disease, and you knew how to save them, you knew where the medicine that would cure them was, you should lead them to that medication. However, i, can understand that if some people do not want the medication, fine. I hear sermons that are about putting the good news into people, as opposed to offering it. That is where it is so troublesome. I hate when people come up to me (since i have colored hair, piercings, and tattoos, and sometimes i wear studs, ripped shirts and jeans) and tell me "Jesus loves you, let him in your heart...blah blah blah (they keep babbling on about Jesus and God)." What makes them think i haven't already, because of how i look? That would mean you are judging me, Christ preached that people should not judge. Oh well, man is not perfect.
Maybe it goes back to "If you don't believe in something, you will fall for anything?" No one wants to be the person that falls for anything, they tend to be stupid and incapable of thinking for themselves, people want to think they are smart, witty, intelligent, wise, knowledgeable, educated... etc. To uphold those, you have to be strong, courageous, and fight for those things you do believe, which again goes back to disagreements, and wars essentially, one side has to "win".
This is an age old concept, and it wont be going anywhere, until we all die, or all turn into brainwashed zombies.
I will stop there, this will go on and on in some kind of rant for me. I tend to talk a lot and have many long winded posts.
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 03:43 PM
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 04:24 PM
Of course some people, especially one web sites, like to provoke people into debating under the false guise of intellectualism. Truth is they just like to argue.
Posted Thu Feb 24, 2011 05:42 PM
I wonder if we would consider the voices that called for the abolishment of slavery as fanatics? Or those that have National fanaticism is this patriotism under a different guise? How about an unwillingness to change ones views upon particular laws, is this fanaticism?
There is a saying that may be relevant to this thread and that is "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"
I ask that these point be considered so as we do not place what is perceived to be fanaticism into too narrow a confine.
This post has been edited by fuck toy: Thu Feb 24, 2011 05:50 PM
Posted Fri Feb 25, 2011 04:20 AM
Posted Fri Feb 25, 2011 07:57 AM
Along that line it is also a question if the nation/people/tribe under attack perceive those soldiers as liberators or occupiers?
Posted Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:58 PM
The thing about fanatics though,are they truly so passionate about the correctness of their particular beliefs or about how wrong the people who don't share them are.I mean when it comes to zealots and fanatics religion is generally mooted as the classic example but when it comes to the fanatical muslim,jew or christian what motivates them.Often it seems to be the hatred of followers of other religions.
It seems to me that like so many of peoples negative attitudes to their fellow man it says so much about the person with the negativity rather than the people they are against.Whenever someone is bad mouthing me,criticising what I do or trying to shove their opinions down my throat I wonder who are you trying to convince - me or you ??
I feel that fanatical beliefs (whether it be religion,politics or even what team you support) are most often strongest in the weak minded,weak willed,those who lack identity or self belief.
Believing that what you believe is right gives you something that inner strength you may lack.The more you believe it the more you feel sure within yourself.Clearly the more wrong people who don't share you're beliefs are the more it prooves that yoursare right !!
It seems to me an eternal truth that the strength with which someone condems someone else's beliefs is directly proportional to how weak that person truly is !!! ~ I call it 'Bob's 1st law of Narrow Mindedness@.lol !!!